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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 1:57:55 GMT -8
Did you know that according to Chaos theory: if a chef drops an egg on the floor in New Jersey it causes Liam Gallagher to turn into a butterfly ?
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Post by orpheus on Jul 14, 2009 1:59:37 GMT -8
You'll never hear Richard Dawkins cracking Oasis jokes Kirk
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 1:59:40 GMT -8
Or that if a Butterfly drops a chef on the floor it causes an egg to turn into Liam Gallagher ?
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 2:10:45 GMT -8
Does Richard Dawkins actually have a sense of humour ? He seems unable to believe anything without resorting to William of Occams razor, but if you use Occams razor upon relativity or quantum physics it would appear that these are also twaddle. However atoms do split and CD players and computers do work and electrons do excite in copper cables,a so perhaps Occams razor is not as accurate as he (and James Randi and Sicop) think.
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Post by thehooverer on Jul 14, 2009 2:37:15 GMT -8
I like Richard Dawkins. However, his humour probably suffers because of the constant attacks from religious groups. He's not allowed to say he's an atheist because it's an affront to the very foundations of our civilization. He states the case for evolution in a very logical, easy-to-understand manner, but he is verbally abused in some States of America for having the audacity to express views that are contrary to religious teachings.
As for Occam's razor, it is useful, the simplest theory is often correct. But I agree Kirk, there are allsorts of complexities in all walks of life which call for another way of thinking. Chaos theory, although not a theory in the traditional scientific sense, is an interesting way of looking at events which often appear random or at least, too complex for the human brain to get a handle on. And on top of that, it comes with lovely fractals and Mandelbrot sets which, as a fan of Fruit Salad type lightshows, I can't get enough of...
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Post by orpheus on Jul 14, 2009 3:15:23 GMT -8
I would point you in the direction of Stewart Lee for an excellent example of maintaining a sense of humour in the face of religious persecution. Granted, he is a stand up comedian but his treatment by the Christian right for his part in the creation of Jerry Springer the opera only fuelled his belief that organised religion is quite frankly not right in the head.
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 3:39:18 GMT -8
Yep, we can't have people having abortions but we can let anyone buy a knife or a gun. Look at the doctor who was shot dead by a pro lifer for having the temerity to offer abortion. Not having a go at Christians (in isolation) but it was the Roman Catholic church that adopted the cross as its symbol. For two hundred years prior to this the symbol had been a fish. Would Christ really appreciate being reminded all the time that he was nailed to a cross ? It seems ironic that far right Christians object to the idea of martydom as practised by far right Muslims when the whole idea of the Roman Catholic is that Christ died for our sins. What's the difference ?
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 3:44:27 GMT -8
No one posted re the link I provided on the last page ?
C'mon have a look, is this fake or are there any believers out there ?. A friend of mine says he has looked into this and where that creature was is a massive hot spot for radiation.
I don't think its fake, fakes look all photoshoppy and this looks just like mobile phone camera footage ? Weirdest thing I've seen this year.
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Post by philly on Jul 14, 2009 3:48:15 GMT -8
no youtube at work, so what are we looking at.....?
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Post by thehooverer on Jul 14, 2009 4:09:05 GMT -8
Just had a butcher's: Picture quality not very good but yes, something appears to grab the boy from behind a lamppost. The pictures were taken in Mexico, I'm not an expert on Mexican fauna so no comment to make. Like Richard Dawkins, maybe I've had a humourectomy....
As for cruxifices, not a very positive symbol for a religion. Slogan: "He died for your sins". Well, thanks fella but you shouldn't have, we're all responsibile for our own mistakes, we don't need somebody to wipe the slate clean. Call it life - an ongoing debate between right and wrong, ups and downs, joy and sorrow. Besides the slogan should have read: "He died because one of his followers snitched on him and the procurator couldn't decide between crucifying the King of the Jews or Barabbas (which I think means son of the father)".
I'm not anti Christian by the way. I'm all for a divergence of views as long as they don't harm or exploit....and usually I like something with a bit of logic.....but I appreciate illogical beauty and other such stuff which I don't comprehend...awesome's the word.
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Post by orpheus on Jul 14, 2009 4:28:05 GMT -8
To me the traditional figure of Jesus is little more than any other guru......listen to me for I am obviously right. And I have a particular disdain for gurus being a Zappa fan. and harking back to Stewart Lee, in the 90's show this morning with Richard not Judy they had an ongoing sketch with Jesus wherein anytime a genuine doubt was expressed about any of his parables he would respond with a pointed finger and an 'ahhhhhhh', the implication being that the doubter just didn't get the true meaning of what was being said to him. I like the mocking of that attitude as what on Earth can be wrong with a questioning nature.
And I too am not fundamentally anti-Christian...although anyone knocking on my door on a sunday morning with patronising intentions will be told to feck off. I totally agree with hooverer about not respecting views that harm or exploit. What kind of religion resorts to the kind of sales tactics employed by British gas.
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Post by thehooverer on Jul 14, 2009 4:46:14 GMT -8
Quantum physics poses many odd questions and provides staggeringly odd answers. Many in this field ignore these implications and use Niels Bohrs "Copenhagen Interpretation" and never consider what Einstein's "spooky action" actually implies, that there are an infinity of parallel universes and that every particle (or wave) in your body simultaneously exists in these universes. We are all one, All universe is one, the big bang was a Quantum singularity exploding (a singularity forms in the centre of a black hole). Someone or someone had to be around at the time of the big bang to observe what happened because it appears that the act of observance is what causes things to happen. Either that or Einsteins view of time being a fourth dimension is incorrect because it seems that the future already exists and that particles in the present have a direct link with particles in the future and the past. Nice to see we agree Orpheus. A group of two. We should form a religion. Anyway, I've been back in time travelling through strange and incomprehensible dimensions and dug up the above quote. Kirk, prove it. ;D
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 5:18:07 GMT -8
Er.. Prove what ? That Scientists studying nuclear physics use Niels Bohrs "Copenhagen Interpretation" and therefore ignore what the world of the microscopic infers upon the world of the macroscopic ?
google it.
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 5:21:54 GMT -8
Philly, its two kids in Mexico in an alley playing football, one runs down the alley and is tapped on the shoulder and becomes very very frightened. The thing doing the tapping has a 3 foot long arm and a huge bulbous head with big black insect eyes. It can only be seen on one side of a lampost which sort of looks like its reaching out to grab the kid from another dimension.
cor.. its well weird
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 5:40:37 GMT -8
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Post by thehooverer on Jul 14, 2009 6:03:11 GMT -8
Sorry Kirk. "Prove it" is a stock reaction to anything beyond my comprehension! I find stuff about parallel universes bordering on faith rather than "real" science - but this is probably because I don't have a scientific grasp of the intricacies. Interesting, awe inspiring, but beyond my current view of reality.
Thanks for the article, I'll read it some time in the future/past/now. I'm confused....
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 7:43:46 GMT -8
Betcha can't prove you exist. I believe you do though.
The phrase that nuclear physicists use about Quantum Physics is "If you think you understand it then you don't".
So maybe they shouldn't really be switching The Large Hadron Collider on again next month.
One idea regarding this machine is it could turn out to be a time travel machine and people from the future might visit us, I hope they bring some Ozric nanoplegs with em (and lots of cakes).
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 7:44:38 GMT -8
And I hope it is people that come through not giant spidery things.
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Post by kirk on Jul 14, 2009 7:53:30 GMT -8
Or Michael Jackson.
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Post by garlicmick on Jul 15, 2009 3:39:21 GMT -8
Garlickmick said : Hard to imagine how it could have evolved if specifically to do with death. It would have nil survival/reproductive value.
Does that not presume that all functions of the body and mind are strictly focused upon evolution and procreation as per Darwinism ? Nah, there's all sorts of cool emergent stuff going on. Just hard to imagine how that one could have emerged. I think it's also some maths describing non-linear dynamic systems. Something to do with all that cool emergent stuff going on
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Post by kirk on Jul 15, 2009 4:04:53 GMT -8
Yes you I believe you are right my garlicky friend. Certainly the Mandelbrot set is derived from an infinite number. I don't really undertand mathematics but apparently there is an infinity of infinite numbers of which Pi is only one.
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Post by philly on Jul 15, 2009 4:16:19 GMT -8
hold on, I don't understand, surely infinite can go left or right from the decimal point, and any number within that infinite row of numbers that is swapped for say one less, would give you an infinite length number albeit one digit different, this would be possible for all the positions in the infinite number to be changed from what it is to any other number out of the 9 left, so surely it is not "apparently" there is an infinity of infinite numbers..........
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Post by kirk on Jul 15, 2009 4:35:29 GMT -8
No Philly, Infinite numbers are not like that, its all to do with square roots and recurring numbers which when laid out on a grid or in a 3 dimensional cube form patterns or imply a higher order. But maths was never my strongpoint, so I don't know how to explain the concept better. I have read that there are over 500 published theorys of maths per year. The last person who understood all the branches of maths (which was considerably less than what it is now) died in the 1920s. I have also read that it is quite possible that some of these higher mathematical theorems may also hold the answer to the unfied field theory (the theory of everything), But it is not within human ability for one person to learn all these and figure them into equations etc.
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Post by kirk on Jul 15, 2009 6:29:12 GMT -8
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Dave B
New Member
Assuming you know everything closes the door to what's really out there
Posts: 40
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Post by Dave B on Jul 15, 2009 10:23:55 GMT -8
Hey I love this kind of talk. "New sh*t has come to light".
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Post by philly on Jul 15, 2009 21:29:21 GMT -8
Well, you're an officer, you know about these things....
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Post by djfirefly on Jul 20, 2009 8:43:58 GMT -8
The most famous "fact" that did the rounds recently was "a butterfly flaps its wings and...." and yet there is no direct source for this phrase, people were quoting quantum physics, Mayan prophesy as the source of this quote yet it appears that no one knows who said this. wasn't it from James Gleick's Chaos ?? That's where I remember reading it too, but I can't seem to find my copy of it at the moment to confirm it. Too much chaos in my house I guess.
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Post by kirk on Jul 20, 2009 23:16:20 GMT -8
If that were true DJ then your house would be full of butterflys (hee hee) or hurricanes or something.
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Post by kirk on Jul 21, 2009 5:54:09 GMT -8
This thread started out re DMT (The spirit Molecule) I bought the book by Rick Strassman this week, well worth investigating..
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Post by kirk on Jul 21, 2009 6:22:26 GMT -8
Just trying to get a bit of a chit chat going again.. so anyone else read it and whatcha think ?
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