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Post by yiannis on Mar 28, 2010 7:23:04 GMT -8
Well I suppose this style of music isn't one to make you a millionaire or maybe even pay the bills. Have you ever done live gigs? That's usually a pleasure for most musicians.
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Post by orpheus on Mar 28, 2010 7:28:44 GMT -8
no...I haven't gigged. with this music it would be difficult really. I would prefer to gig with music that other people had had a hand in. I did used to make a lot of music with a couple of other people but for various reasons it came to an end. Working this way is good because my ideas get a thorough airing but on the other hand sometimes I get sick of hearing what I percieve to be cliches...or at least things I am too familiar with from my own playing.
still...I enjoy making it and enjoy it even more when people enjoy it too
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Post by quinoa on Mar 28, 2010 7:52:13 GMT -8
Good Then you won't mind that I posted a link to your myspace page over on Erpnotes at Facebook. Just thought I'd let you know. Cheers
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Post by orpheus on Mar 28, 2010 8:01:11 GMT -8
Not at all Q. In fact, I will go and check the Erpnotes facebook page out as I keep meaning to have a peek
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Post by ozricnutter on Mar 28, 2010 8:33:09 GMT -8
Well I suppose this style of music isn't one to make you a millionaire or maybe even pay the bills. Have you ever done live gigs? That's usually a pleasure for most musicians. Well I know where Kev's music would fit well. Just listen to that guitar solo 7 minutes in on Gravity All Nonsense Now. I could see it now being played to end a weepy ''it brought tears to my eye's'' And the Oscar for a film score goes to............Kevin Bic..........
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Post by yiannis on Mar 28, 2010 8:37:09 GMT -8
That tune did stick out actually. Fantastic.
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Post by kirk on Mar 31, 2010 3:52:46 GMT -8
Have you guys heard his track Tephra ? very very spacey ethereal synthy thing, its bloody marvelous.
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Post by orpheus on Apr 17, 2010 13:38:28 GMT -8
New track, Quetzal, on myspace. Oh the joys of the myspace compression that makes anything you post sound like crap
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Post by orpheus on Apr 17, 2010 14:37:55 GMT -8
Make that 2 new tunes. Another called Yuna
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Post by garlicmick on Apr 19, 2010 8:23:46 GMT -8
Lovely stuff, Orpheus, keep it up. Just so I don't sound like a total fanboy, I'd say the drum machine sounds a tad mechanical with the lush organic textures. Others will disagree, but I'd bring in those nice changes (like at 3.44 - what is that?) and let the guitar rip (like during the fadeout) earlier. I totally get the taste and restraint thing. Nice - there's way too much shred and noodle out there already - but you might be selling yourself short with the long ostinato bits. Properly produced, it's the sort of thing I'd go out and buy.
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Post by orpheus on Apr 19, 2010 12:19:17 GMT -8
Which track do you mean Mick? Yuna? I agree that the rhodes sounding keys could have happened earlier but the track wass pretty much improvised. And the guitar is indeed restrained. I spent many years playing too many notes and still do when practising. If I ever play a lot of notes in a tune I usually cringe nowadays.
As for drums...my main concern really. I only use the drum machine and am way too lazy to program a lot of changes so have a static loop and improvise fills over the top. I may well go for something like an ER1 at some point for variety and introduce some crazy rhythmic things. But for now I guess I need to work on my laziness.
Like Isaid before though, it's pretty lonely to record on my own all the time. But at least I only have to deal with my own ego and not some manic Jaco obsessed bassist who decides overplaying over every single thing is the way to go!
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Post by orpheus on Apr 20, 2010 0:07:49 GMT -8
Ah...if you mean Quetzal then the change at about 3:40 is a recapitulation of the opening tonality. It sounds much different after coming straight after the harmonised guitar parts. the chord is basically an A major 7 flat 5....the shape is the 'Zoot Allures chord'. E 0 B 4 G 6 D 6 A 0 the lead guitar using an A Lydian tonality. As for the long and tasteful notes you can blame David Gilmour.
As for the guitar ripping at the end, I was planning on fading out before then and was just blowing a bit without intending to keep it but decided it was coherent enough to warrant a place in the fadeout
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Post by garlicmick on Apr 20, 2010 7:58:31 GMT -8
Yep, sorry, I meant Quetzal - thx for the info. And tracks in general, though I reckon Yuna works as is. So that was clear as mud.
But, yeah, I'd definitely say the percussion isn't doing yer tracks justice ATM. Programming drum machines is just a pain, I know, but much more fun on the computer ..when it works. Is there some kind of sync' so you can go back and alter drums after overdubs, or are you committed by then? Check yer PMs, I might have an idea.
I totally agree about not overplaying. Nice to hear guitar to suit the track, rather than the other way round. I still reckon the occasional rip (like Quetzal fadeout) would be nice in the right places ..if that's not stating the obvious.
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Post by orpheus on Apr 20, 2010 8:02:52 GMT -8
Well, I have let rip on guitar many times. I do actually have well over 100 tracks but only 10 on myspace. I find it hard to justify indulgent guitar playing though unless you're an absolute genius like Holdsworth.
I absolutely never use a pc to record music. I can't stand them at the best of times. I used to use cubase and it was just way too much for me to learn and kept crashing and losing data so I gave up. I do try to maintain variety using different fills and stuff which I play in real time over the track but I think it is basically the lack of sensitivity of drum machines that lead to the mechanical sounds.
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Post by garlicmick on Apr 20, 2010 8:11:50 GMT -8
I'm a guitarist myself and totally agree. And it's a love-hate thing with sequencers. Can't imagine how else a lot of Ozrics stuff could get written, though.
IIRC, a few others here said they didn't use sequencers, but have nice percussion tracks that don't sound like drum machines (Unsurprisingly, there's enough talent and know-how on this board that you lose track of who's who).
Any tips, guys?
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Post by etherealise on Apr 22, 2010 20:11:52 GMT -8
IIRC, a few others here said they didn't use sequencers, but have nice percussion tracks that don't sound like drum machines (Unsurprisingly, there's enough talent and know-how on this board that you lose track of who's who). Any tips, guys? My advice would be that the only way to get drums sounding really good (i.e not like a drum machine) is to work with a computer based program, sorry!. I've used drum machines before but they'll always be limited in realism because of the lack of depth in sampling different velocities and timbres. Of course you can get reasonable results if you have a good unit, and certainly knowing how to program it well will improve things. There is software available now for which drums have been sampled with great detail (e.g snare hits have 100 or so velocity layers and randomize same volume hits so you don't get that machine gun effect for snare rolls and fills). Toontrack's Superior Drummer 2.0 or BFD are examples. I use Toontrack Superior 2.0 and it has been a big learning curve and quite time consuming, but absolutely well worth the effort. From my programming experience I have to say I think hihats are one of the most difficult parts to program well. Depending on your music there may not be a whole lot of rhythmic complexity or dynamic range in your kick/snare parts, but to liven this up you really need good hats parts, and also ride cymbal. I've learnt recently a lot of this is down to accents, even more than how good the samples are. Basically your velocities shouldn't be the same through a 16th note hihat part, e.g you might have an accent on the 1 and then a quiet note on the off beat. Not quantizing 100% really helps too, otherwise things can sound a bit rigid. Obviously fine if you are doing electro/dance/R&B music, but not if you want feel. Even better is to use these programs with an electronic kit- even if you can't really play it like a drummer would, overdubbing parts separately like hi hat just with a crappy rubber pad can inject a suprising amount of realism into your drum tracks
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Post by etherealise on Apr 22, 2010 20:20:00 GMT -8
I absolutely never use a pc to record music. I can't stand them at the best of times. I used to use cubase and it was just way too much for me to learn and kept crashing and losing data so I gave up. I have to say this was my initial experience too about 10 years ago when I started using Cubase on a PC. But I've since learnt (the hard way) that much of that kind of instability comes from not have the right hardware and not configuring software, especially windows, correctly for audio recording. In short, straight out of the box computers are good for office work but not for music, you really have custom build and then tweak. By this I don't mean build it yourself - I wouldn't have the first clue how to do that- I mean know which parts you need and get someone else to do it. This guy www.pcmus.com/AudioTips.htm#Computer_Articles has some good advice, scroll down to 'music computer articles' And all this is not to say crashes don't happen when you've got it 'right'... they do, too often! But the benefits of using the PC for recording have been so great for me that when I think back to how I used to record, I can't imagine doing it at all.
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Post by garlicmick on Apr 23, 2010 5:06:20 GMT -8
IIRC, a few others here said they didn't use sequencers, but have nice percussion tracks that don't sound like drum machines (Unsurprisingly, there's enough talent and know-how on this board that you lose track of who's who). Any tips, guys? My advice would be that the only way to get drums sounding really good (i.e not like a drum machine) is to work with a computer based program, sorry!. I've used drum machines before but they'll always be limited in realism because of the lack of depth in sampling different velocities and timbres. Of course you can get reasonable results if you have a good unit, and certainly knowing how to program it well will improve things. There is software available now for which drums have been sampled with great detail (e.g snare hits have 100 or so velocity layers and randomize same volume hits so you don't get that machine gun effect for snare rolls and fills). Toontrack's Superior Drummer 2.0 or BFD are examples. I use Toontrack Superior 2.0 and it has been a big learning curve and quite time consuming, but absolutely well worth the effort. From my programming experience I have to say I think hihats are one of the most difficult parts to program well. Depending on your music there may not be a whole lot of rhythmic complexity or dynamic range in your kick/snare parts, but to liven this up you really need good hats parts, and also ride cymbal. I've learnt recently a lot of this is down to accents, even more than how good the samples are. Basically your velocities shouldn't be the same through a 16th note hihat part, e.g you might have an accent on the 1 and then a quiet note on the off beat. Not quantizing 100% really helps too, otherwise things can sound a bit rigid. Obviously fine if you are doing electro/dance/R&B music, but not if you want feel. Even better is to use these programs with an electronic kit- even if you can't really play it like a drummer would, overdubbing parts separately like hi hat just with a crappy rubber pad can inject a suprising amount of realism into your drum tracks That's all exactly what I've found. Except I've no experience of Toontrack. I've heard good things about EZDrummer, which sounds easier to get going with. One trick I remember from drum machine & eight track days was to record, say, a tambourine or shaker -anything by hand and put it really far back in the mix with plenty of reverb. Sometimes helps.
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Post by garlicmick on Apr 23, 2010 5:13:47 GMT -8
I absolutely never use a pc to record music. I can't stand them at the best of times. I used to use cubase and it was just way too much for me to learn and kept crashing and losing data so I gave up. I have to say this was my initial experience too about 10 years ago when I started using Cubase on a PC. But I've since learnt (the hard way) that much of that kind of instability comes from not have the right hardware and not configuring software, especially windows, correctly for audio recording. In short, straight out of the box computers are good for office work but not for music, you really have custom build and then tweak. By this I don't mean build it yourself - I wouldn't have the first clue how to do that- I mean know which parts you need and get someone else to do it. This guy www.pcmus.com/AudioTips.htm#Computer_Articles has some good advice, scroll down to 'music computer articles' And all this is not to say crashes don't happen when you've got it 'right'... they do, too often! But the benefits of using the PC for recording have been so great for me that when I think back to how I used to record, I can't imagine doing it at all. Absolutely, though I'd say the sequencing app's can be pretty counterintuitive too. Unless you're the kind of Aspergers nerd that writes the software, you're in for a hard time at first. They just think differently. I was really lucky in knowing a guy who was already well clued up to get me over those brick walls they seem to program in delibertaley. Otherwise there's no way I'd have stuck it. But, yeah, I can't imagine going back to an 8 track with a little text window now.
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Post by orpheus on Apr 23, 2010 5:55:35 GMT -8
Dan, I do agree that drums sound way better with the velocities available on pc programs. The main problem is all my own technohobia. I genuinely panic when I have to learn to deal with complicated stuff
Mick, I find the pairing of the words Asperger's and nerd to be rather curious
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Post by garlicmick on Apr 23, 2010 7:15:29 GMT -8
Quite a lot high functioning autistic and Aspergers people are computer programmers. Sorry if that sounded offensive. Nerd and geek are, by now, generic slang for IT worker. I work with 'em a fair bit and some actually regard "somewhere on the autistic spectrum" as a badge of honour.
Mind, I'm certain that talking paper clip in MS Office is Aspergers.
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Post by orpheus on Apr 23, 2010 7:24:19 GMT -8
Well, I have read and watched a ton on the subject as my youngest son is autistic. I wouldn't use the word nerd myself but I was unaware of it's useage in regard to programmers. I definitely agree that people with asperger's can be ridiculously talented in that field. So very interesting. My own son is terrible with maths based things himself but his attention to detail is scary. He is obsessed with Google earth and knows every single nuance, and through its use has an encyclopedic knowledge of countries and cities.
And to think these gifted people would have been thrown into camps and poisened in wartime Germany
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Post by garlicmick on Apr 23, 2010 7:53:14 GMT -8
Well, again, sorry for any offense. It is a fanscinating thing. I read Daniel Tammet's autobiography recently. Besides the amazing gift for numbers and languages, the guy taught himself irony, how to read facial expressions, etc. Some of the IT people I know definitely have problems with that but, generally, it's they who get impatient with me coz of my limitations.
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Post by quinoa on Apr 23, 2010 11:24:33 GMT -8
I have a good caver friend with Asbergers who is a genius at 3d modeling in pro engineer. He is a big Ozric fan too thanks to me. And Bobs son Lowell who is autistic has a fantastic geologic memory and like your son his attention to detail blows me away. Peace
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Post by watermill on Apr 24, 2010 1:10:55 GMT -8
It's my daughter's eleventh birthday soon and we're going to buy her an Electric guitar, Amp and all the leads. She already has an accoustic. I have around £250 to £300 to spend on all of it, and looking around, i came across Peavey who do both amps and guitars, are they any good, is there any makes out there that are better for the money i have. I know it's the cheaper end of the market, but it's her first electric, so i'm not going to go too mad, i'm just after a bit of advice from the guitarist on here...
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Post by orpheus on Apr 24, 2010 1:34:35 GMT -8
Yamaha pacifica is a great starting guitar as is a squier stratocaster. With the squier you usually get a decent quality amp too, but most shops will do you a decent starter package.
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Post by damien on Apr 24, 2010 1:50:35 GMT -8
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Post by orpheus on Apr 24, 2010 2:28:36 GMT -8
Here's another suggestion Watermill. I'm using GAK only as an example...I am not in any way saying they are the best retailer but they are a good example of low prices. www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/71219Epiphone SG pack. The SG is a good, lightweight guitar. Damien mentioned weight and for a starter an SG is a good choice as the neck is not too thick and not hard to adjust to. As I said though, if you're getting one from a store then they will usually do some good deals themselves and are always open to a bit of bartering.
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Post by orpheus on Apr 25, 2010 23:26:25 GMT -8
Hey Dan, what pc software are you using to record? I am finally going to buy a new pc as this one is about as healthy as a Romero zombie. Therefore I reckon I will be able to run a program such as cubase with much more stability. The real test is trying to wrap my head around the associated instructions...but I have used it in the past, I just gave up. I may just use the sequencer for better drum grooves and record them out into my multitrack. I think that would be a happier compromise for me as the drums really are my only gripe.
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Post by orpheus on Apr 26, 2010 0:33:56 GMT -8
So, I just aquired a program called Izotope Idrum. the reason being it is a standalone drum program. the kits are not realistic but it's a piece of piss to use and there are some very good drum n bass sounding kits in there. I shall crack on with it and see how it goes for now.
The ezdrummer and superior drummer look awesome Dan but they certainly seem to be at the complicated end of things. Time to do a Wurzel and put my thinking head on eh?
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